Monday, April 19, 2010

The EVE Blog Banter Special Edition: The Ladies of New Eden

Welcome to another special installment of the EVE Blog Banter, the monthly EVE Online blogging extravaganza created by myself, CrazyKinux. The EVE Blog Banter involves an enthusiastic group of gaming bloggers, a common topic within the realm of EVE Online, and a week to post articles pertaining to the said topic. The resulting articles can either be short or quite extensive, either funny or dead serious, but are always a great fun to read! Any questions about the EVE Blog Banter should be directed to me. Check out other EVE Blog Banter articles at the bottom of this post!

EVE Online, as the saying goes, is probably the most hardcore MMORPG currently available to the gaming masses. Hell, let's be serious it's one a the very few true MASSIVELY MULTI-PLAYER Role-Playing Game out there, and one of a handfull who's seen its subscriber numbers go up since its launch. But gentlemen, we have a problem.

I say gentlemen because, though there are few ladies roaming New Eden, the truth is, there are too few of them. As @Mynxee wrote about in "The Real Sisters of EVE", in a recent issue of EON magazine (issue #018 for those curious souls), EVE is an MMO that is overwhelmingly played by male, and where the female player population hovers at a about 5% of its total subscriber base.

I am one of those who believes that, though the game should not be changed to specifically go after that part of the gaming population, EVE Online would greatly benefit if somehow the balance the 2 genders roaming New Eden would lean towards an equilibrium. So I ask...
What could CCP Games do to attract and maintain a higher percentage of women to the game. Will Incarna do the trick? Can anything else be done in the mean time? Can we the players do our part to share the game we love with our counterparts, with our sisters or daughters, with the Ladies in our lives? What could be added to the game to make it more attractive to them? Should anything be changed? Is the game at fault, or its player base to blame?
I'm not trying to provoke or lay blame on anyone or any group. I'm simply trying to get your neurons and opinions working on finding solutions to this interesting problem we're are faced with. I know you can come up with interesting and innovative ideas. And I'm willing to reward for those...

So I'm looking for the best answers, the best ideas and the best solutions. In return, I would like to offer you $200 in EVE Store coupons as prizes for the best entries. This will be broken up so one winner gets $75, a second gets $50, and the three last winners get $25 each.

The Contest & The Prizes
Write an article letting us know how we could get more Ladies to play EVE and get a chance to win one of these 5 amazing prizes, courtesy of CCP Games!
  • 1st Place: $75 in EVE Store merchandise [and 100 million ISKs]
  • 2nd Place: $50 in EVE Store merchandise [and 100 million ISKs]
  • 3rd, 4th & 5th Place: $25 in EVE Store merchandise each [and 100 million ISKs each]
  • [Additional prizes for 6th to 10th place: 100 million ISKs each]
The Rules
I'll be judging your articles based on their quality, structure, approach, originality. Other criteria are as follows:
  • Contest is open from now until Monday, Arpil 26th 11:59:59 PM EDT, 2010
  • Submit your article (title and URL) in the comments below, before the contest expires. I will be using the date and time of your comment as the time stamp for the contest.
  • Include at least 5 other participants listed at the bottom of your posts, with links to their entries. (Simply add them as new entries come in)
  • No offensive or racist language will be allowed.
  • You will need to link back to this post in your article introduction, as in typical EVE Blog Banter fashion.
  • The winners will be announced on May 3rd, 2010. [Extended to May 7th, 2010]
As always, I'll be adding a list of participants in a separate article, until the drop date next Monday. Don't worry if your article doesn't appear immediately after you've posted your comment. As long as it's in the comments before the drop date, you'll be entered in the contest.

I'll be waiting anxiously for your submissions and look forward to reading them.

Fly safe!


Lea said...

eee-xcellent *in my best Stewie voice*

Looking forward to this one! \o/

Anonymous said...

If you don't mind I'm skipping this one CK, I don't know what women want in a game like this, perhaps the social aspect and that would be solved in 1 word: Incarna.

Ombey said...

Excellent, mine's here:


Unknown said...


My entry -

Title "Is eve a man's world? - blog banter"


PeterW said...

It’s a double bind, I would say. On the one hand the combat side of things (Yeeeah! Blow shit up!) is, as you say, not especially female-friendly. On the other hand, the production and manufacturing side is the most spreadsheet-like part of the game, and is therefore not particularly female friendly either.

Banear said...

Woops, I'll try again. Here's my take on the subject:

Title: Sorry, No Pink Spaceships Here Please

Ignore the slightly misleading name of the link - I have no idea how to change it

Rixx Javix said...

Alright, I'll bite. Hopefully no one will bite back. :)

EVE Blog Banter: Chicks 'N Ships

Ztikara said...

There's mine:

Title: The Girls who Fly Spaceships

Eve SOB said...

I'll throw some grumpings at this.



Eve SOB said...

damn it JIM!

Title: It’s not about fluffy bloody Kittens people!

stupid brain.



Max Torps said...

Greetings CK!

My entry (Max Torps) is here entitled "Space Boobies Are Bad, m'kay?"

Arukemos said...

I fear this blog banter was designed to make as many men be kicked in the crotch as possible, bravo CK, bravo!

Here is my entry :D

Special Blog Banter: I Like Girls

KaarBaak said...

No offense intended, but I can make Eve more attractive to females with two words: Less math.

It sounds stereotypical, but it's sadly true.


Garhead said...

Here's a go with my first Blog Banter entry ever:

Blog Banter: Special Edition or making Eve More Casual

Bahamut said...

Here I am!

rantuket said...

CK a new one for you mate!

GL to everyone else!

Anonymous said...

Added my (grumpy) 2 cents: Is there something special about women?

Shava said...

Allo, CK! I posted my very first blog banter entry. Hope you enjoy it!

Zajamaru said...

A girl's view:

and thanks getting me started to blog CK, luv your banters ^-^

Mandrill said...

Mine is up> The Female of the Species

Lord's Servant said...

remove goons/pl......

As long as there is that level of flaming and hostility in the game I dont believe eve will appeal to our better halves :)

Guys see the game and say "holy shit..that dude got backstabbed and lost a 1,456,245,764,235 isk ship....thats awesome...wonder how they planned that.

Most chicks just say. "That guy was a dick." Maybe add in painting ships or something? :) More miniprofessions for the feminine guys and real chicks in eve :)

-Lord's Servant

PS- if u dont know why I want goons and PL out...take a look at the thread on CAOD about someone who played eve and recently died of lung cancer. Goons and PL are despicable ppl....

Taram Caldar said...

I don't blog anymore.... but my entry is simple:

Get Walking In Stations online. Add social elements to the ambulation scene.

CCP has been saying for 5 years now that they want to get walking in stations done. No single expansion will open up this game to female players as much as that single change will.

Most of the girls/women I know who play games play them more for social interaction than for blowing people up. Sure there are exceptions to that but they are relatively few and far between. Give them a PVP Free environment to socialize and interact with other players and you'll start drawing female players. Give them the ability to change clothes, decorate, etc... and you'll draw more. It's pretty much a proven fact that women are drawn to games that allow them to be creative and to socialize. Even UO learned that early on.

It's not rocket science.

Anonymous said...

kinux, this is beyond sexist, i am deeply disappointed, but i'm happy you didn't mention we need more niggas and people with funny chineese accents

Mercurye (Ingame name) said...


Why can't we keep EVE the way it is....yes, it is a game where you meet very few women or more feminine minded people

Does it matter? Do we need everything to be politically correct?
The game is still going very well after all these years and getting better without it

I personally have a hate-love relationship with it....

+I like the skill-system, slow pace and since it was my first MMO I have never really got rid of it. Its also very easy on my choppy internet connection :)
-No 'colour', terrible amount of E-peen and math gibberish, constantly evolving yet it feels so static, hard to get personal/trust

But, I accept EVE for what it is and I play it casually

Anyway, I wouldn't cater to or even mention it if it was my game design.....I wouldn't do it with bracelet/necklace-making evenings either

CrazyKinux said...

Keep it up folks! We're starting to get a nice list of entries!

Michael Williams said...

I examine games that girls DO like and think about how EVE could incorporate casual content:

EVE Online Can Appeal to Women By Adding Casual Content

CrazyKinux said...

See the Anonymous comment above. That's why I hate allowing these. If you can't back what you say, then don't comment.

Should I delete it? What do you guys thinks?

Unknown said...

Add a Frozen Corpse icon to it, nice touch ^^

Anonymous said...

Great idea for a banter! Mine is here:

KaarBaak said...


Re: anonymous coward above: as long as you're deleting due to the "anonymous" and not for content, I say delete.

KB (my only posting/twittering/blogging/playing name)

CrazyKinux said...

Nah, I'll leave it! Reminds me idiots roam around this blog.

Though nothing prevents him/her from deleting it, then accusing me of doing just that! O_o

Mandrill said...

A perfect example of one of the main reasone why a lot of women are put off of EVE is that anonymous comment.

Trolls that use race/gender/religion etc as a reason for trolling are offputting to anyone. Way to make your point Anonymous.

Asking the question is not sexist, its the answer that springs to your mind when asked it.

Anonymous said...


Ayporos said...

My idea is short, so I will simply type it in here if you don't mind:

Better quality and resolution female avatars, with ability to 'adjust' more body properties (for example bust size springs to mind).

When can I expect my prizes?

Anonymous said...

Here is my entry into the Blog Banter arena:


Good luck to all!

Unknown said...

One Mud I played on in the nineties had a sci-fi (Star Trek) theme and it had a greater number of female players. It was text but it had second life style player content creation features for groundlings. Open source tools are in the works for this so it might be something that could implemented cheaply.

KaarBaak said...

I've been going through reading (and commenting) on each posting...thinking I wouldn't have much to say on the topic...but reading through roughly half so far (how DO you do it CK?) has motivated me to put something together when I return to my nest (And dinner BETTER be on the table!)


Echonation said...

Wow! There really have been some great posts! I can't wait to see who brings in this win.

Unknown said...

After reading your blog again Crazy I was thinking about what you wrote

Can we the players do our part to share the game we love with our counterparts, with our sisters or daughters, with the Ladies in our lives?

Maybe it would help if more men who would like their ladies to play could invest in their hobbies and interests aswell

Not all are guilty of it, but its something I notice; be interested in EACH OTHER and invest time

Stargrace said...

New Eden doesn't need to change for EVE - Adam needs to get over himself:

Jazz said...

I don't blog so I am not sure how this all works...but here goes.

As a female player for almost 2 years now, I don't agree that Eve or CCP should change. I enjoy logging on every day and blowing up stuff (sorry, I don't cuss so that's the best you get from me). After a long day at work or whatever I am doing, the relief of just shooting things in missions or even other players is a great tension reliever.

On the flip side, the reason I got involved in Eve is due in part to my brother and a friend of his who always played and had a great comradarie with their corp mates. That was a huge draw for me and I have made many friends during my time in Eve as well as a few not so friendly people. Anyway, the mining and manufacturing aspects of the game were the biggest hook for me. I could go into a belt, relax and mine for hours and just chill out on vent with the guys as they went over ship setups or pvp action. When they post a fit in chat, I cop it down then tailor it to my skillset and try it out. If it works, then great, I have a new ship fit. The joy of building ships and mods has been something that I have also kept very active. Always making those iskies because EVERYONE needs ammo and ships. LOL

As I have evolved in Eve, I have become engaged to the CEO of our corp and taken greater roles such as Corp Manufacturer, POS manager and now second in Command of our Alliance. While some would say that is due to my fiance playing favorites, the truth is that those duties happened well before we ever met IRL. In laymans terms...I earned them by working my butt off in game and proving myself to be a team player and responsible and reliable person.

Okay, another point...I agree pink ships (I hate pink btw) are not the place for Eve but I (and some of the guys too) would like to be able to put details or paint on their ships to show individuality. But that's another article for someone else.

Okay, on to some details for you guys who talk to and try to recruit your significant other and gal pals into Eve. When you show them the game, don't be negative...this is my ship but you won't be able to fly it because it isn't right for you...that's crap!! We can train those skills too ya know....eventually.

Be open to their thoughts on the game and actually listen when they ask questions. Oh and when they do sign up for the free trial, don't take over their game and reset their settings or refit their ships. Instead give them advice on set ups and tell them why so they can actively participate in their gaming experience. Or give them links to BattleClinic loadouts and other pages so they can do their own research then ask questions when they need to.

Above all, be patient with a noob (we were all there and we ALL needed help at some point).

Eve is a fantastically unique game, as we all know. However, there are no rewards for leveling up and no gifts/prizes for completing a skill. Unless of course, you have a great group of corpies who decide to reward you for some goal that is set. Being a female, and knowing how we think, most females want that aspect from a game. But not all of us.

Socially, yes, Eve is male dominated and that is great but there is room in this vast universe for us females too. Don't worry guys, you can still go into your man-cave and pvp until your heart's content.

Okay, there is my response/thoughts/opinions.

C-ya among the stars, Jazz

Anonymous said...

My first entry! EVE Online and... Women (Sorta)


Brin said...

Definitely not touching that contest. All I can say is that the couple other girls I have played with have all loved MINING - more aspects in that area would be appreciated, I'm sure! Cheers. :)

Carole Pivarnik said...

Here's my entry:

Think Outside the Spaceship

Chelsea Greenwald said...

Girls Just Wanna Have... Guns!

Eelis Kiy said...

Heyhey! Rere is my entry :-)

It's a womans world

KaarBaak said...

You talk tough for someone who has comments turned-off. I'll just have to wait until I'm in Rens to compliment your post.


Brother Grymm said...

Well, in my experience, the amount of women in the game is not as small as it is made out to be. Certainly, proportionally there are less than men, but out of the ~30 people we have in our alliance vent, 6 are women. I also know almost a dozen other female players who I've either spoken with on the phone, or on my private vent server. This is just people I can be certain are chicks, there are plenty of others who claim to be female, but cannot (for some reason or other) connect to vent. About 1/2 of our corp is female avatar, while about 1/5 actually claims to be female.

rantuket said...

A front page mention on!

This might shape up to be one of the biggest banters yet

Unknown said...

My submission for the contest!

Answer to "The Eve Banter Blog"
For KrazyKinux
Submitted by Chronos I

Click on the "Blog" tab

Wrote this with the help of my gf...ENJOY :)

(To open the note book touch the corners.)

Anonymous said...

"Don't change Eve for me!"

Unknown said...

Honestly, Incarna will be the thing that draws the ladies. In my experience, they love pretty things. Pretty outfits, pretty pets, pretty whatever. Cuteness works too.

I'm sure if you can have customizable areas in the game, like living spaces or stores or whatever, also some kind of vanity pets and outfits and trophies and such, the draw for women will be irresistible. That's of course for the more common care-bear type lady. Every once in a while, you come across the bloodthirsty type of woman, and this game already delivers for them.

Isaiah Harms said...

The Vikings of EVE have a suggestion for CCP. A way to include women in roles that are challenging, rewarding, and peaceful. While still retaining the high degree of immersion that is the nature of any career in New Eden. Find our post here:

My sister and my wife both enjoy EVE. However not as much as other games... and it has nothing to do with math, swearing or sexism.

After reading such rubbish in various comments to CK's great question, I've decided my corp will become a female "friendly" corp. I don't doubt their intelligence, OR their combat ability. Neither should you.

Isaiah Harms, CEO Viking Fleet

Jaggins said...

Here's my entry for this excellent blog pack question. Nice to see the big participation numbers!

Keenk said...

This is a man's world. Truely, it is. A world full of machines, of weapons, computers and battles.

Take it literally: the big missing part is the part most females are more familiar to, than this world described above.

The question should not be formed as what could bring CCP to EVE-Online to make the the game more attractive for female. Ask yourself first, what would a female expect from EVE-Online.

As long as the nature of EVE-Online is dedicated to space ships, space battles and economic progress the attraction will be very limited.

Just recall that the males are the hunters, while women are more the gatherers. The only way gathering in EVE-Online is appearing is bound to gaining ISK. CCP could make the world for females more attractive by implementing some functions and parts which are not that explicitly headed to competition and effort.

An example? Sure. Females are much more attracted by a character and its individualism. This part is in EVE-Online like non existent. You can make a picture, play around with the pose and leave a biography. That's all. No Slots, no real impacting optical individualism, no clothes, no chance to gain unique items that form your personal avatar inside of EVE-Online. Don't get me wrong. This is not sarcastic or ironic. Females WANT to attract.

From here the real story starts. Give the characters slots for clothes and jewelry. They should have an impact, too. For the so much underestimated skill line social. Production of clothes with charismatic impacts, for pilots, traders and or pirates.

That could startup a brand new kind of the game we all love so much. Bring in some missions which involve social interaction and manipulation.

Bring up some meeting points like lounges, bars and cafes. Some places where pilots, smugglers and even bountyhunters chill.

As long as the avatars interaction is limited to some more or less populated chat channels, external view of the space ship and double clicking an agent in a station that just gives you 1 (!) option (yes/no/later), EVE-Online will not be attractive for females. The depth of social interaction, communication and visual individualism in EVE-Online is horribly low.

Mind that not only females missing that part, some male definitely do, too. I would also love this parts :)

Greets, Keenky

Lacrimae said...

You made me blog, dude!

I might have fallen under "offensive language", but I don't really care right now :D


Lea said...

My 2isk

Anonymous said...

Keenk said: "This is a man's world. Truely, it is. A world full of machines, of weapons, computers and battles."


Computers, guns and machines are for guys? I guess I should inform my mother, who was a programmer even back when you had to use punch cards to program computers. Or a friend of mine from college who's quite adept with her father's extensive gun collection.

I managed to resist saying anything when I saw a comment on one post about spreadsheets and math not being women's things, but this one just takes the cake.

Get more of us by putting cute things in the game? If I wanted cute I'd buy a Barbie game.

Mat Westhorpe said...

EVEquality: The Rise of the Female Gamer

Flashfresh said...

Flashfresh:'Women in MY SPACESHIP, is she from Mars?'

KaarBaak said...


Ironically you prove the point of the person you're responding to. I can remember all 5 of the female programmers I knew pre-1990, but could never possibly recall the hundreds of males in that same group.

The one thing the current female capsuleers have in common with male capsuleers is their affinity for the game. The issue is marketing/advertising, not mysogeny. Playing the "gender card" simply lowers you to the level of such immature responses.

No battle has ever been won by being defensive.


Selina said...

Throwing in my two bits to this seemingly popular hit subject:

Blog Banter: Captain Kirk Hates Eve

Anonymous said...

KaarBak: How does disagreeing with someone's stereotype of women mean that I'm "playing the gender card" and being defensive? Serious question here. I'd like to know, because you've left me scratching my head in confusion.

As for my having proven his point regarding computers being a men's thing, I hardly see how that's the case. We aren't talking about pre-1990, to use the reference you expressed; we're talking about now.

I agree that EVE doesn't need any sort of drastic changes made to appeal to women. My whole point by saying that women enjoy computers, tech, & guns was that plenty of us like the game *the way it is now*. My blog entry pointed out that one of the big things that EVE could use to appeal to women was simply better advertising of the diversity of material already present in the game---and that it would be a mistake to try to cutesy things up.

I'm not sure how it is that you read this as playing of the gender card and wanting the game re-written for women. You'd be better off directing your ire at someone who actually disagreed with you on that point.

A former gamer coming out of retirement said...

My contribution CK.

Anonymous said...

I've written my entry in the form of a short story detailing an encounter in space which sheds some light on the matter:

I hope you enjoy it. =)

Anonymous said...

The preceding comment is by me, Persephone Astrid. The login procedure here is giving me fits. XD

Mord Fiddle said...

Mord Fiddle's x by x genetic succession unit holds forth on the subject at his Fiddler's Edge EVE blog.

Chelsea Greenwald said...

@ KaarBaak

Comments fixed now. They were broken, but I fixed them just for you! :P

Hale Sunblade said...

First blog post ever. Due to being stuck because of the ash cloud over Europe :)

Bluelynx said...

I wrote this before I realised it was a comp, or that "offensive" material would not be accepted. I'll let CK judge as to whether this is acceptable or not, whether it makes the comp or no, it finally got me to start the blog I've been meaning to.

Girl on Girls in Space:

KaarBaak said...


I guess I took

"I guess I should inform my mother, who was a programmer even back when you had to use punch cards to program computers."

to reference some time in the past. Does your mom play EvE? Does your gun-toting friend?

My point is/was that "people" like computers, "people" like guns, "people" like EvE.

Spouting examples of great women programmers through history (of which I'm sure you mother was one) isn't really relevent to the question (despite what several bloggers insist on posting in their responses.)

You were being defensive and took that commentors 'bait' when they made the (off-base) comment.

I also find it interesting that the number of responses (and probably bloggers in general) as a percentage, is higher than what is given as the EvE population. Hmmm...females participating in the more social aspects of the game. I wonder if CCP thunk of that?


Does that mean I can stop floating around Rens? Did I really scare you into turning on comments rather than face a carebear like myself in space? SNAP! I rock. :)


Alehandra Dvemko said...

Here is my submission - may the flaming begin:

What Women Want (in Eve) - .5 or Higher!

H said...

To CK - Thanks for energizing the general community.

To All - Awesome submissions. Seriously, just awesome.

To Anyone - EvE winning best MMO 2009? Thanks to CCP and especially thanks to the bloggers out there. The commuity is what make it truly special.

Rock On.


Kirith Kodachi said...

Time is on Our Side:

Anonymous said...

My entry

CrazyKinux said...

Thanks Helena!

And thank you all for the great turn out!

Hallan Turrek said...

Sydnie James said...

Not sure if I'm doing this right, but here goes.

Loving the other entries so far as well. You have your work cut out for you!

Sepelio Fas said...

Here's my 2 cents worth.

Theo d'or said...

CK: A small thought or two...

Eve in EVE: Getting ladies to play EVE Online

Anonymous said...

Response to the challenge:

S.W. said...

Back again, after another hiatus and another host change. Always liked the blog banters. Here's my opinion...

Arrhidaeus said...

My (long) entry is finally done!
The title:
EVE Blog Banter Special Edition: The Ladies of New Eden (An Analysis on How Men are not from Mars, and Women are not from Venus)

My hats off to anyone who bothers to read the entire thing:

Rhiaden said...

Throwing in my rambling:

Anonymous said...

CK here is my submission:

Title " Ladies to the gunfight " very sarcastic mind you


Anonymous said...

Here's my thoughts, from a non player:

Anonymous said...

I normally just draw stuff on the blog but I decided to give this a shot anyways. :D

Halycon said...

My submission CK

Maverynthia said...

Reading some of these entries is a bit sad. It's pretty much of the, "Girls like pink things and chick movies. Boys like to blow things up and dominate things."

Has anyone ever thought it's the community? It's the sexist comments about women or using sexist terminology like the 'b' word to describe people. From what I've heard about EVE, I've heard it's community us VERY male centered, and if your "oversensitive", "offended", "a carebear", or "weak" then the tits and GTFO basically. Ask yourself if blaming the victim is right here.

True there may be aspects to the game that not many women would like, however hearing that the community won't even change it's attitude is the biggest reason I don't play the game.

Entry titles like "no pink spaceships", "how to get the bettys", "WTB (want to buy) girls", "It’s not about fluffy bloody kittens", and "What women want" for example are VERY telling of the mindset behind the game. I don't care if it's women writing the articles as they can be just as sexist.
Those titles drip of "we see you women as a commodity, something we want to buy, something we want in the game so we can get our jollies." Which is why even asking the question the way it was asked is pretty sexist in itself. A better title would be "Why doesn't EVE appeal to women." and then ASK WOMEN why they don't like it, instead of asking the male player base what they THINK women want in the game.

Killerkram said...

I've never blogged, but i think here will be a good spot to throw down my personal opinion ^_^

Well, I got my girlfriend to start playing Eve, it was a little bit of a struggle but she made it through, it was a struggle for all of us so I was expecting it.

First of all you cant get anyone in eve (dude or girl) unless you kinda walk them through it, I tried to get my brother in and it failed. I'm not into combat so I skipped that entirely and showed her how to mine rocks, reprocess them, the basics of trade and all the easy stuff. She got into it and eventually became a ruthless trader. Now she has more isk than I do and is the corporate financial adviser!

She hasn't strayed away form combat completely though, she flies a Jaguar and flies it well, she is moving to larger t2 ships after a few more trade skills finish.

The key is (this goes for everyone who plays eve) is to let the newcomer know you can do ANYTHING you want. This is YOUR universe and YOU can became ANYTHING YOU WANT. But then show them a taste of what is out there, let them see a little of everything. To take it all in at once is very crazy and may scare them from this great game, but if you slow it down and let them see it piece by piece the new player will more likely find something they love and pursue that.

It also takes a special kind of girl, my girlfriend is also a ruthless medic in Bad Company 2 and also plays Fallout 3 and Supreme Commander a lot! If your girl isn't into games, then Eve might not be he place to start (or maybe it might be because of how different it is). I knew she would love Eve, my sister on the other hand is more of a Mario person, anything past that is too much, i tried and failed.

You have to also remember that Eve is not for everyone, my girlfriend's brother love CODMW2 a lot, but tried Eve and got lost with all the buttons. It takes hard work and time to appreciate Eve all the way.

I think that sums it up good. A lot of these comments seem sexist, maybe that's another reason girls don't play that much, easy now boys! Be nice!

H said...


I wrote a pretty extensive answer then decided against it. Too long, and unlikely to change your perspective.

So, a couple of things:

All spaceships are created equal (except for maybe Gallente ships who really need some love right now).

Don't operate off hearsay. Be involved in the community. Better yet play the game and find a good supportive corp in the first instance before striking out in whichever direction you would like to go.

I think you'll find that the EvE community is a damn sight more intelligent, varied and welcoming than what you're suggesting.

Chomz said...

hi.. i'm new in eve and already fell in love with it. yea, i'm a female player (real one, since too many male using female chars.. lol)
i do appreciate these issues about how to attract more female players, but hey.. this is a wargame afterall... if we change crucial things about this game, it will loose the main attractions of pew-pew-ing... LOL

Unknown said...

I don't have a blog but I put some thoughts on the subject here in the EVE forums:

Brutus Mayhem said...

my blog here


Lissanna said...

As a female gamer who doesn't play Eve, I took some time to learn more about this game that my boyfriend loves, and here is what I've learned on my journey into Eve this week:

Illectro said...

Being a man I felt unqialified to participate, instead I asked my daughter Skye for what she'd like to see in the game.

Unknown said...

I'm not a blogger, but I am a girl, and I think there can be things added to EVE that would make it more attractive to girls, things that the boys would like too.

Make it more personal.

Think of games that do have a greater female player base: Simcity, the Sims, or all those terrible games on Facebook. Over time you get get more and more options to personalize your city, house, farm, island, etc. In a lot of "girl games" this can take the form of shopping for cute little outfits for your avatar, but the important thing isn't that the outfits are cute, but that they are personalized. When I started playing EVE I spent hours playing with the character generator, and occasionally I still do. Not because I'm obsessed with getting just the right avatar, but because it is fun to personalize things. I think a lot of guys would enjoy more personalization too.

How can this be applied to people who spend their lives floating in a pod of goo? Let people repaint their spaceships. You might not want to give them a free hand with it because of all the dongs that would inevitably show up, but it should be possible to to make simple colour substitutions to existing designs. If you want your Crusader to be black and green instead of gold and red, you can do that. Maybe even allow Corp logos to put on ships, since those are all made up of generic elements already in the database. (Like rigs, the paint job would removed and destroyed if you repackaged your ship).

Incarna should have a lot of opportunities for personalization, you really will be able to go shoe shopping to personalize and "connect" to your avatar.

Incarna is also supposed to be player owned shops and bars that can be plugged into stations. I really hope that some customization is available in them. Do I get to pick the wallpaper and arrange the furniture in my bar, and maybe even build custom avatars for the NPC staff . . . or do I just have a choice between Generic Minmatar Bar 1, Generic Minmatar Bar 2, and Generic Minmatar Bar 3? It is a drag to fly around the galaxy and have everything look the same wherever you go. Don't blow it, CCP!

Speaking of blowing it, Tyrannis had a lot of potential for personalization in "building a colony", but it looks like CCP has wasted that opportunity in favor of a "dots on a map" design choice. Why? Yeah, dots on a map is probably the most efficient design, but I was kind of looking forward to building a little colony and ruling over the lives of virtual colonists. :( There should be different challenges involved in keeping colonists happy and productive on a lava world as opposed to a temperate world, but it looks like all those personnel issues are going to be handled invisibly. If you have a Command Center you have everything you need to keep your population alive and productive. No bribing them with wine or exotic dancers, or keeping them in line with militia and slaver hounds. :( It could have been an engaging little mini-game, instead it will be just another semi-passive income source.

Unknown said...

Title: Ladies of New Eden URL:

Anonymous said...

My submission:

"The Female Podling"

Tinkers Bell said...

Great topic, and my submission:

Titled "Ladies in Space"

Chomz said...

a friend of mine asks me to put this link since he has a limited time to get on line ^^

Ideas on How To Attract More Female Pilots

Unknown said...

Enerla said... (Ladies of Eve)

Evan said...

This is my take on the Female Pilots view of Eve.

Chomz said...

here it is, i forget to put my own link.. a noob's toughts, it is XD

Brutebz said...

Hey Brutus B here, and this is my blog entry in response to this post.

Enerla said... (52 days of eve online)

Warning: The article is several pages long.

Zomnut said...

In Search of the Sisters of Eve

laser007 said...

ok you ask so here ya go
women love they truely love to help almost every one or even a small furry pet and if its cute omg some girls wont put what they have down and also every girl or women that plays eve only needs to feel like shes wanted and loved i ask is there anyone who likes to be treated bad no so make it easy to see that in EVE they are truely waanted and needed like a nurse or the keeper of every small cute furry space kitten and wala magnifique lol i hope this helps if you need more theres lots just ask eve will win there hearts only need to show the women of the world this.

Enerla said... (Be a Man!)

Unknown said...

We are there, but to be honest, it's not always easy for us to play. There are too many idiots in this game, who thinks that they can use us for there unfulfilled sex dreams. Eve is what it is, if you like it, it doesn't matter which gender you are. But playing with stupid idiots can steal our fun.

Black Isis said...

Here's my first Eve banter -- hopefully I've included a few new thoughts in there somewhere.

Getting More Eves in Eve Online

Svetlana Scarlet

Nathan Weyer said...

First time poster, throwing my blog into the mix:

Gender Inclusiveness in CCP's EVE Online

It is a rather long one I am afraid.

Unknown said...

Without the current mental capacity to write a full article (sleep deprivation ftl!), I shall still attempt to outline a few thoughts. <3

I would most definitely play if there was a bit more social interaction. I understand how the formula for EVE works, yet it always felt a bit too impersonal for me. When I play online with a large amount of people, I like to have the tools and ability to socialize in a variety of ways. I think a huge part of this is also how I love to have an avatar "persona" which interacts directly with other players. Since they gameplay is largely technical (with what I gathered from my brief experience in the EVE universe), I had the perception that it related more to a RTS. It's true, RTS is my genre of choice, but EVE always felt a bit too much a mix of half-MMO and half-strategy game to me. I may be willing to give it another chance, however, since (as I said) my experience with it was rather limited. :p

Now, keep in mind that my opinion may not match other females! Just my personal thoughts on the subject. ^.^

Lacrimae said...

Laser007: Start running, because my autocannons are pointing your way!

LILAND said...

Isnt the solution obvious? More kitchen-computers!

Miss Jane said...

Here's mine!

Numtini said...

You inspired me enough to finally stop being lazy about starting a blog. My meager contribution:

Unknown said...

Here is mine, and my first Blog Banter.

H said...

Hi All,

This is not an entry to the competition, but is something I wrote a week ago. It echoes some of the recent comments, so... here 'tis

CK - I don't envy you choosing the winners. There are some extremely good submissions.

Lastly, and just a note - look at the number of entries. Way greater that the usual 5%/95% ratio oft quoted.

The solution may not lie with CCP at all...


Joshua said...

AWESOME topic, CrazyKinux!

My entry:

Way to go, CK... I look forward to reading all these!

Anonymous said...

Nearly lost my battle against the clock there! Exciting, this is my first blog banter for you, CrazyKinux!

My entry's called "Private: Lady Vengeance, Or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Pew-Pew" - And the content is just as unconventionally long.

Please access it here:

Anonymous said...

Yeah its after the contest, but intellectually like EVE, and would like to see it improve.

The short summary, the NPCs and PCs don't seem real as you interact with them as photos. Even without a full ambulation implementation, I think mission running would be more enjoyable if agents were animated enough to communicate their "faction standing" emotional state.

Also I avoided the whole "girls" want X trap, and stuck to what I wanted, and what one of my coworkers wanted.

Demonspawn said...

Aye, I missed the contest as well, but my answer is short:

"Who cares? Why is attracting 'girl gamers' more important than just attracting more gamers in general?"

I mean, do female gamers pay more per month or something? Are you going to turn Eve into a dating service? Why does the ratio of guy to girl gamers matter at all?

But, if you want your simple answer to how to do it: You will find that anything that is 'niche' has many more guys than girls (almost to exclusion) while anything that is mainstream will attract for more girls than guys.

So, if you want to destroy your niche game in order to make it more attractive to women... I guess that's your choice as a developer.

Scrobes said...

I've come to realise that of the small percentage of female players that *do* play Eve, most of them appear to be raging Browncoat fans.

So to add my own little bit to the general discussion, I propose the following changes:

1) Hire Nathan Fillion to do recordings for a male version of Aura (quips, remarks, etc)
2) Introduce a new ship class called the Firefly
3) Add strawberries as a market commodity

That is all. ;)

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

My gf is an avid wow raider and when trying to get her to play eve her comments were "its not colorful enough; it looks boring."

I'm not going to bother entering to say make it more colorful. As any eve player knows some parts of eve are very colorful at first glance at the game play, videos, and screenshots all a person who knows nothing about the game sees is a lot of black space, a few dots of light, maybe a planet, and a mostly gray ship. I cannot speak for most women but for her color and customization are very important. She may raid every day because she enjoys the game. But in comparison she might change her hair color/tabard several times a day.

Unknown said...

Eve Online - The Forgotten Species

I know I am passed the deadline but felt it was a good topic to blog about after my first day as a noob in Eve and being a woman.


nonarKitten said...

As both a woman and someone who's played EvE, I'd like to say up front how immature some of the previous posts are, and that is ONE reason why I quit. Juvenile behaviour in a game that rewards juvenile behaviour. Strawberries as a market commodity...

There are two other reasons I gave it up though.

1. Fighting. When two men fight it out, they'd as likely end up being best friends. Fighting is a way to settle things and move on. To most women, fighting is about vengeance, and only serves to make any relationship worse than it was before. If someone pops me, I don't laugh it off - I want to find their IP, and go burn their house down. The only possible vehicle in the game to get retribution is either ganging-up or the terribly broken bounty system.

2. Creation. The in-game mechanics for building ships, stations and equipment is so boring. It's not just a numbers game, it's a boring and tedious one. And in the end, everyone builds the same crap that gets blown up inside of a week anyway, so nobody cares. The means justify the ends here - and building only exists to support those who want to pew-pew, and nothing more. Its vacuous.

So, to me, EvE serves to waste time, and occasionally make me angry enough to want to commit a felony.

As to what **COULD** be changed?

a) don't allow the boys to play with female avatars - it dilutes the uniqueness of women playing these games, only serves to objectify us more (as you all know the REAL reason men do this), and to me is really queer. Either they're (mentally) a 12-yo who's playing with himself every time he looks at the picture, or he's got some deep rooted gender issues to resolve.

b) fix the bounty system; we all do stupid things, but if I have a billion ISK to make someone's life miserable for taking advantage of an accident, I want to know that's what it's doing and not just being pocketed by his alt or corp mates.

c) make manufacturing fun - and maybe if I knew that building XYZ meant something, I'd be more inclined to build it. Detailing, rigging and outfitting ships should all be the responsibility of the manufacturer.

H said...

@ nonarKitten

"a) don't allow the boys to play with female avatars - it dilutes the uniqueness of women playing these games, only serves to objectify us more (as you all know the REAL reason men do this), and to me is really queer. Either they're (mentally) a 12-yo who's playing with himself every time he looks at the picture, or he's got some deep rooted gender issues to resolve."

Objectification is alive and well in both genders.

Case in point: one of the women respondents to this mentions in her blog that she chooses a particular character in one of the games she plays because she likes the look of him more than enough to compensate for the lack of effectiveness.

She also talks about "eye candy" for women.

I remember a good (female) friend of mine walking up the road going "Val Kilmer, phwoaar", if you want a RL example.

Secondly, if you want equality then your point about gender specific avatars must also apply to women.

And that makes it that much easier for the idiots (and lets be fair, they're everywhere and not just in EvE) to be themselves as soon as you turn up in local.

What about the gay/transgender etc(excuse me for putting everyone into one basket there) communities? Exactly what sort of avatar would you make them have and how would you prove it?

While I can applaud you putting your points across vigorously (and there are some good ones in the rest of your submission), painting everyone with the same brush is as equally damaging as a black and white opinion of the opposite nature.


Enerla said...

Sadly her comment is sexist.
Sadly most of her other ideas are from other submissions

And what she says about Fighting is pretty close to the "Be a man!" article, but the issues aren't this gender specifics, since this attitude encourages on kind of behavior from a pretty sexist (stereotype focused) perspective, and can be equally repulsive for several male players.

But she supports the same sexism and generalization, which makes her point weaker than the original.

Scrobes said...


I'm sorry if my initial post was offensive to you. My comments about appreciation for Firefly/Serenity was merely tongue-in-cheek, and was definitely meant to be lighthearted, rather than as a serious proprosal. :o (I thought I had conveyed that sentiment, apparently not)

Willa Murdoc said...

Ah Right! Do I look like a Damsel in distress?

Anonymous said...

I've seen no results of the contest. Were we all duped?

H said...

Actually, I suspect CK has found this one to be a bit larger than he first thought.

No duping. Just 80 submissions to read and triage and decide on which 40 he likes. Then perhaps 20, 10, 5....

And to be fair, there were some staggeringly good responses. Give the guy a break.

Lastly, this subject IS a little bit of a political bombshell in some respects. I'd imagine CK is treading a wee bit carefully too.

Unknown said...

The list of winners is posted where?

Unknown said...

@ JA Amilla

?? Im confused, is that spam or someone thats commented on the wrong blog or a funny joke about women and handbags in relation to the post topic?


Anonymous said...

Dear H,

I'd believe your comments on the delay of announcing the winners if only CK would say so himself. I understand your intentions but, (and certainly no disrespect to you) I'd rather hear the reason for the delay from the fella that announced the competition. He left us all hanging.

The delay in announcement of contest winners combined with the lack of a reason why he is late is a bit disrespectful towards those who entered the contest.

H said...

Hello Chebri,

I think things have gone way past what I was suggesting. CK is definitely MIA. This is not aimed at you, but the posts I've seen recently have all been about the contest and not the person.

CK's site was one of two I would always check regularly. He posted on a frequent basis.... now it's once a week at best for his Friday links.

More concerned about the man himself to be perfectly blunt. The contest can get stuffed. Be much happier if CK was back... or at least if we knew what was going on.


CrazyKinux said...

@H - Thanks for backing me up!

@Elizabeth - You were right, I deleted that SPAM comment.

@Chebri - RL was the culprit. But you're right that I should have provided a little update sooner.

@H - Thanks for your understanding

Unknown said...

I suspect CK has found this one to be a bit larger than he first thought. CK

Mindzai said...

I am a girl & a n00b - the target audience for this topic I think XD I'm REALLY looking forward to more avatar customisation (dont really care about walking round in space stations tbh tho.)

I dont have a blog, but I have a suggestion that may appeal to women, a feature I'd enjoy anyway.

We mostly arent the gung ho risk takers men are. Yes we can enjoy the hell out of pvp, the caveat is we like to know we're in with a good chance of winning, or at least not losing everything. We generally don't want to look like fools, we don't want to gamble everything we spent months working on.

We're more inclined to like something if we know we are good at it, or have the potential to become so. Many of us have an attitude of - "I don't know if I'm ever gonna be good at this so why would i risk my hard earned ship on a learning process where I might not even have the base aptitude to ever be proficient at it". And we'll move on to a more sure thing.

If CCP could design a pvp minigame tangent where the penalty for failure were less harsh. An arena to try out pvp where those risks (losing all, looking like a clueless nub) aren't so great. A PvP training ground where women could learn to wtfpwn & learn they could be good at it, without risking everything in discovering that.

There are myriad ways this could be designed - perhaps an instanced arena where say 5 to 20 of each of the opposing factions battle against each other. The main point being if you are blown up you get to reclaim your ship & fittings. Either no or very small ISK penalty for failure.

This would hopefully with the right design also end up being a cooperative effort whereby players of the same faction who are strangers do end up needing to talk & communicate with eachother (in the arena, or whatever it would be called, local chat) to form strategies to win. The social/cooperative aspect would also have appeal for women - they meet people, but casually, without the commitment to a corp.

It would provide women a more casual EvE experience where less was at stake, a practice arena for real EVE pvp, (to learn they may in fact have an aptitude & passion for it & so when they do the real thing they have some practise & a chance of not losing face or ships). also a social ground for meeting, strategising & working with new people.

Most of all this would be an addition to EVE, not a change to EVE.

Anonymous said...

Mokelembembe: They have that already. It's called the test server.